Curse

King's Spectre · Sep 27, 2006, 03:47 PM // 15:47

That little council chamber in NF seemed to work well. Maybe we'll see more. Come to think of it the Latendah bog was pretty much an interior cave - narrow twisty passages with a foliage roof.

One big problem with a twisty-turny labyrinth is the agro bubble. You will *constantly* be agroing critters

Big_Iron · Sep 27, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05

I can see how this could make it better, especially for the more hard core RPGers. I think it may make the game more immersive if you could go into taverns and dungeons and so on. I've played other RPGs where you can and I find it enjoyable. I'm thinking it's a technical issue, but since I don't do modeling or level design for a living, that's only a guess.

dreamhunk · Sep 27, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thallandor

TBH when i played WoW for a while, i liked the interiors as well, Being able to hide in the roof beams and drop down to scare pple is quite fun

But the main reason i suspect that we dont have alot of interior area as much as we think we would like them is purely because most of them look like exterior ones, a good example would be PvE tombs. did it occur to you when you played it that it was infact in an enclosed area?

The mechanics of the game engine with the area design have to keep in mind of the possible maximum number of entities that can exist at any location at any given time meaning to say that techinically every area in the game should be able to handle 8 MMs with their 80 minons and 8 pets and still allow NPCs to be able to follow some sort of path walk script w/o bugging (too much body block, pple are already complainting that their own pets bodyblock them in PvP... )itself. Hence what this translates is that it is less likely to run into gameplay problems if the areas are wider and less enclosed, making even enclosed areas look like open ones.

I think what this thread perhaps means to say is to allow certain buildings to have interiors that can be accessed w/o loading preferably and have more cave like areas where they can body block each other for fun with the dark atmosphere of adventure

that is why i say that there should be jumping running, climbing etc
then you have cool buildings to hide in this would more improve the rpg as well as the pvp. This would so bring real thinking and skill into this game.

waiting in the beams for your prey. lol

reminds me of Van dam

Darksun · Sep 27, 2006, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

How, exactly, does it make better RPG?

Simple...... VOLUME. lol sorry couldn't resist the snl quote.

Seriously though, It think it just has to do with atmosphere. An Entire area may seem more fun just because of how it "feels". I think many people don't realize the impact of atmosphere on the how enjoyable a game is.

It doesn't even need to be much.. it may only be in towns, but after a while, having everything be out in the open pulls me out of the immersive aspects of the game. Eveytime I see a building I know it's just a pretty sculpture, not a building.

A. Noid · Sep 27, 2006, 06:04 PM // 18:04

I couldn't agree more. It's something I think we might be getting -at least in small part- in NF.

http://uk.videogames.games.yahoo.com...ll-f2621f.html

Hope this comes across- 1st time posting a link. But the review spoke of a dungeon(s). Hope it is just the start

And, as a side, it doesn't have to be a small building in town, it could be a great hall of a king. Small buildings are fine, but I could live with large ones as well. Darnit- I need a couple of ceilings

Also, I find the market in Ascalon city a 'believable' enviornment. A mass of merchants gathered together to offer their goods.

lightblade · Sep 27, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Many people get dizzy when playing 3D games in a indoor setting (like me). I think it's actually like 20% of the population have this kind of problem, and it's a lot.

lyra_song · Sep 27, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Yes, shopkeepers and merchants should sometimes be indoors to further confuse newbs

crimsonfilms · Sep 27, 2006, 06:59 PM // 18:59

It is probably related to the limited usage of a true Z-axis of the game's engine (ever wonder why your traps under the bridge is triggered by object ON the bridge?).

Trvth Jvstice · Sep 27, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Ewwww. I just realized... In busy areas, (LA) the shops would be so full, there would just be one big blob of people standing inside. It would be difficult to select the shopkeeper, much less be able to appreciate the atmosphere of the interior.

In instanced areas too many people wouldn't be a problem though, for dungeon crawls or haunted castles etc. EDIT: No that wouldn't work because of the aforementioned z-axis thing.

Omega X · Sep 27, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

EDIT: No that wouldn't work because of the aforementioned z-axis thing.

No. They just need to make the surfaces block the aggro circle. That is the only real problem.

LagunaCid · Sep 28, 2006, 01:03 AM // 01:03

I woudnt like to enter an instance to craft armor, then have to leave it again to buy dyes, then enter another one to buy runes, then visit another one to store items.

Mesmer in Need · Sep 28, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10

heres a pic of my ranger/merchant. he doesnt seem to like selling stuff...

Overnite · Sep 28, 2006, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Guild Wars engine can't support small interiors so the Sorrows Furnace is the closest thing to a dungeon you'll ever get.

Scavenger Rage · Sep 28, 2006, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overnite

Guild Wars engine can't support small interiors so the Sorrows Furnace is the closest thing to a dungeon you'll ever get.

You will have to "get tecnical" on me before I take that answer as definitive...

It is NOT an agroo circle problem... It is NOT a camera problem... It is NOT an engine bug whatsoever... It is NOT a z-axis problem (thought I agree the usage is pretty poor in GW).

So, any tecnical suggestions why they do not make this?! Or lets just stay to the "lazyness" aspect?!

Latter.

Mr_eX · Sep 28, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Whenever I'm somewhere in Kryta and I see a magnificent castle in the distance I get really dissappointed because I remember that I can't enter it.

Interior areas would definitely be pretty awesome from a roleplaying/realism perspective. I'm willing to bet that this is something ArenaNet will toy with in the future as they continue to improve the graphics engine.

UBS · Sep 28, 2006, 03:14 PM // 15:14

This would take a hell of a job, and wouldn't produce a real big effect. The current game world is the best, imo, that could of ever been produced. The game is an outdoor game. adding these roofs would cause bugs, and the camera angle would have to be adjusted.

Straight forward really.

Lumenil · Sep 28, 2006, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_eX

Whenever I'm somewhere in Kryta and I see a magnificent castle in the distance I get really dissappointed because I remember that I can't enter it.

Interior areas would definitely be pretty awesome from a roleplaying/realism perspective. I'm willing to bet that this is something ArenaNet will toy with in the future as they continue to improve the graphics engine.

I agree..

I'd like so much to be able to go inside that tower.

Numa Pompilius · Sep 28, 2006, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Mike O'Brien coded the game engine. He also worked on the WoW engine. I highly doubt that its a technical issue since Body Blocking does not function in towns(which is where indoors places should be).

It's a safe bet it IS a technical issue. Guildwars uses far more complex graphics & lighting than WoW, and adding indoor environments would lead to a lot of people getting unacceptable lag due to weak hardware.

Imagine a town like Kaineng Centre, which already is quite laggy due to hundreds of PC's running around, with 100x as many polygons and 10x as many textures due to there being a variety of indoor environments as well. Ouch.

Even though the polygons shouldn't be rendered if they're hidden from view, the extra memory required and extra calculations would bring weaker machines to their knees.

One solution would to do like Morrowind does (and presumably Oblivion), and use portals. When you entered a house, you'd be transported to a new instance. That way complexity could be reduced, but on the other hand you'd get tons upon tons of loading screens, and walking around in town could easily get very tedious. Not to mention making finding people in towns very hard.

All in all, the lack of indoor environs is a tradeoff necessary to both have nice graphics AND have the game running well also on weak hardware.

lyra_song · Sep 28, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scavenger Rage

You will have to "get tecnical" on me before I take that answer as definitive...

It is NOT an agroo circle problem... It is NOT a camera problem... It is NOT an engine bug whatsoever... It is NOT a z-axis problem (thought I agree the usage is pretty poor in GW).

So, any tecnical suggestions why they do not make this?! Or lets just stay to the "lazyness" aspect?!

Latter.

First, im gonna assume we want an interior "building" type environment, not a cavern or tunnel (which GW does fine with, ie: Large rooms connected by small tunnels).

Aggro circle:

Monsters dont care if they have direct line of sight or not, they will fire arrows and spells through walls, effectively nerfing rangers, while melee characters will run around to hit you.

Improvement in monster AI specifically in indoor areas would be required.

Camera:

Camera works fine next to walls, imo, since Guild Wars for the most part uses one way normals on walls. Some fine tuning on the player's part to get the best angle would be required.

Engine bug:

ya right >.> GW could render indoors easily.

Z-Axis.

Well we have problems with this, and i dont think interior environments would have any problems as long as its ONE floor basically.

Multi-floored buildings would requiring zoning with each floor.

I dont consider it a laziness, i think being confined in spaces easily makes AOE skills and spirits OVERPOWERED and thats my main concern.

Scavenger Rage · Sep 28, 2006, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Anyone here ever played pre-searing?! If so, lets try to remember the CATHACOMBS...

The camera is NOT an issue there...we have tons of small narrow corridows and it goes perfectly well...

ALSO the agroo circle is not...the disegners where smart enough to create "pop-up" spiders and place the mobs in specific places where the agroo does not affect trought walls (even thought in the time I went trought it the agroo circle on the compass did not exist, it was already there on the game code).

Z-Axis where not a problem also...and as someone already said, loading screens betwen levels of the caslte / cave would be a breeze....

And for the monsters AI... it is not all that hard to implement a code that make then run and lock themself in rooms to avoid enemy contact... OR simply run away trying to lure the group into traps or such...

AoE spells and such...there is always room to run away (foward or backward), and since EVERYSINGLE GAME have eoe spells and dungeons (castles, caves or such...) this is not a problem...

I am still lacking some tecnical explanations for why don't have indoors...

Latter.